My Lunches with Orson: Conversations between Henry Jaglom and Orson Welles by Peter Biskind

Author:Peter Biskind [Biskind, Peter]
Language: eng
Format: epub, mobi
Publisher: Henry Holt and Co.
Published: 2013-07-16T03:00:00+00:00

14. “Art Buchwald drove it up Ronnie’s ass and broke it off.”

In which Orson ridicules Ronald Reagan, explains why he lost his respect for Elia “Gadge” Kazan, and argues that old people, especially macho men like Norman Mailer, come to look like their Jewish mothers.

* * *

ORSON WELLES: Did you see the tribute to the five distinguished people at the Kennedy Center the other night?

HENRY JAGLOM: No. I missed it.

OW: I saw it. It was a riot. Art Buchwald came on, and for seven minutes drove it up Ronnie’s ass and broke it off. He didn’t have one joke that Ronnie could even laugh at. He said, “And Mr. Reagan…” you know, with that voice of his, “We have to be careful. We ought not to treat the arts the way you treat Central America.” And he said, “Because, if the Kennedy Center goes Communist, the next thing is the Hollywood Bowl!” You could see the audience wondering whether they’d be photographed by the FBI on their way out if they laughed too hard.

HJ: Did they cut to Reagan at all?

OW: At the very beginning, doing a kind of wince, and then never again. The whole dressed-up audience had these frozen smiles. Art was the licensed jester. They couldn’t cut. I wanted to see how Old Blue Eyes was taking it. But we didn’t even get to see that.

HJ: Who else was there?

OW: It was a great group. Besides Sinatra—Kazan, Katherine Dunham, Jimmy Stewart, and Virgil Thompson. First we had a speech by Reagan, from the White House, instead of his speaking from his box or coming on the stage. They’d written a very short, gracious speech, which he read with that Reagan skill, which can be very good. Followed by Warren Beatty, who introduced Kazan, calling him “our greatest living film director.” A very bad speech. And badly delivered. He looked terrible. Any thought that he’s gonna be president was written off last night. Katherine Dunham is a fake dancer if ever there was one. And Virgil Thomson, introduced by John Houseman. I didn’t stay for that. They roomed together—they were lovers. Why shouldn’t he introduce him?

HJ: Yeah, yeah. They were lovers, really?

OW: Oh, yes.

HJ: Is he that old?

OW: Houseman is eighty-one. Something that gives me comfort every night. Every night when I get a twinge of rheumatism. He’s holding up awfully well, though.

HJ: More extraordinary, that Warren would choose to introduce Kazan!

OW: Kazan gave Warren his first job, Splendor in the Grass. Why couldn’t he have pretended that he wasn’t in town, or something? When I saw Gadge it made me sick. I still can’t forgive him. The people I got most mad at were people from my side who gave names. And he was one of the biggest sellers of people up the river in the whole bunch. I am not a vengeful person, but Kazan is one of the people that I feel really badly about. I was—in fact, in a terrible way, I’m still fond of him—I like Gadge.

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